Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · May 28, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Me and my g/f decided to go powerhouse Ranger... [er Power Ranger? bah] But due to the nerf in the Conjure forcing you to carry a bowstring of the same element to work [thereby not making uber powerful bow weapon setups]

I'm at a loss. I did not anticipate our builds to require elemental bow strings so now what do we do concerning our rangers? We're not going to spend time/gold to find a bow string JUST so the Conjure damage will work so I'm just looking for either:

a) substitute suggestions (remake Range/Class Secondary) [we're only lvl 8 and can store our non-customized weapons in storage]

b) change builds [instead of conjure something *which shoots our offense in the butt* we utilize some of the cheaper energy skills to supplement our waning DPS]

If we were to remake (I would but I don't think she would) I was thinking R/W for large damage output [both our builds are high dmg snipers] Frenzy with Tactics Shouts or stances. Or if not that, R/N using barbs / mark of pain to up damage capabilities.

What would you people suggest? I'm kinda lost now. I'm not going to hunt/buy an elemental bowstring...

Howling Wind · May 28, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Yeah I was kind of dissapointed with the R/E build, but you can still hold on to R/E until u get mark of rodgort, then you combine that with conjure flame + glyp of lesser energy (mark or rodgort very heavy on energy cost) + mark of rodgort for very powerful damage. You can combine that with barrage and you will be taking groups of monsters at quite a good speed, to add even further damage, you can stack it with lots of rituals and tigers fury. The only downside is that mark of rodgort is quite later in the game.. so is barrage and tigers fury. Also bow-strings aren't that expensive you could grab one for around 400 gold.

For other profession builds you might as well check the ranger basics thread or do a search, it will be quite long going through all but R/N is quite good for group monsters as well with mark of pain + nice PvP skills to use as well.

Or you could go pure ranger...

Yukito Kunisaki · May 28, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I already mentioned that we're not going to spend time/gold on a bowstring. 400g?!

Sorry but the dps we get for 800 gold I'm pretty sure isn't worth it. Mark of Rodgort... is not going to work since we're not going fire [WHY OH WHY NOT GO FIRE!!?? Well to those people who are thinking this, I'm very certain that not only are the fire magic people a dime a dozen, but air/water work together to a tiny degree]

She's Air Magic
I'm Water Magic

One of our late build high level combos was Frozen Burst + Lightning Touch. A heavy energy expense to spend and tricky to do in time [they both need the enemy to be point blank which means he's got it good in terms of def/healing] I'm helping both our builds using Marksman's Wager to offset the energy to a degree. The combo should deal 120+ dmg to a mob if one decides to get in spitting distance of me and her.

We're gonna have to replace our Conjures. [and no I'm not going to buy one / find one so don't ask]

I was thinking of using Armor of Mist + Windborne Speed. A speedy ranger helps get into higher positions to dive bomb our enemies.

An alternative final step would be to just get low energy striking skills:
Ice Spear [since Marksman's is an elite, no Water Trident ;_;]
Lightning Strike/Orb
Maybe ice prison...

The Red Knight · May 28, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Could try barrage + conjure

Bit nastier then judges +barrage

Yukito Kunisaki · May 28, 2005, 10:14 PM // 22:14

What did I say about conjure element?

From what I've read and the update, we NEED to have an elemental bowstring to use it and I said we won't buy one because we chose not to.

Please don't post any more conjure+etc. combos cause our R/E just can't do it anymore due to Anet's decision.

Xellos · May 28, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Why not buy them? They aren't expensive at all. Second, if you played the game far enough, you should've unlocked at least a string by now.

Most rangers now don't really play the role as a damage dealer, because they can't do it too well anymore. You can still deal sustainable damage, but I'd rather carry concussion shot and debil over a power shot or hunters if I can afford to use barrage. Rangers simply are a bit weird at the moment for me.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 28, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

So instead of going powerhouse you say we should go for disruption instead?

R/E is a LOT weaker in Disruption than R/Me.

Nvm, I guess that I can't find the help that I need here.

Hmm... I think I'll get the movement buffs for our respective elements then and work outside the box... [team perspective]

Clobbering enemies from afar using high damage flatbows to the head coupled with Marksman's Wager + Serpent's Quickness should be SOMETHING the monk would have to worry a bit about.

And remember, it's two high dmg rangers burying a called target. Any power I'm dealing is backed by equal power from my g/f.

At close range, our surprise attack is the Frozen Burst + Lightning Touch Combo. [though now that it's here, it's not much of a surprise now is it? lol] In theory it SHOULD hit for well over 120+ dmg to a person/mob nearby. With hp totals in game nearing a little over 500+ dmg on average, that's not small dmg. (and if it is, good luck catching us since frozen burst slows ya down for 9 seconds+ ^_^)

Howling Wind · May 28, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Well since you can't specialize in damage dealing with R/E without conjure and you like water, then you might as well lean towards a pure ranger build with water element to back you up with your other skills and be a trapper. This way with water elements you can put the enemies to a disadvantage and your girlfriend can counter on that with some air elemental.

Put some traps in front of you so if any enemies do make it near you, they are easily caught and taken care off, this is good for PvP but can also be good for PvE especially from crystal desert and onwards where damage from elementalist skills aren't that effective unless they have armour penetration, so dont use the low energy cost spells to much but let ur gf keep enservating charge to reduce enemies dmg output if they get in contact with you. I also recommend Ice Prison for PvP especially.

Also I wouldn't recommend marksmange wager with a flatbow because it has the highest miss rate and last thing you need is to lose 10 energy for missing. Your gf would be quite effective with shortbow / composite / longbow + marksman wager + lightning orb or chain lightning, this should let you cast these two spells more often.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 29, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Ok, now the real depth of this question:

Class: Ranger / Elementalist

Attributes: (cost) '+' indicates Rune attributes
Expertise: 7+1 (28)
Marksmanship: 10+2 (61)
Wilderness Survival: 9+1 (48)
Air Magic: 1 (1)
Fire Magic: 1 (1)
Water Magic: 10 (61)

Total attribute points used: 200/200

Skills: [Attribute] (Energy, Cast Time, Recharge TIme)
1) Hunter's Shot [Marksmanship] (5,0,5) Bow Attack: If Hunter's Shot hits, you strike for +13 damage. If this attack hits a foe that is moving or knocked down, that foe begins bleeding for 21 seconds.

2) Penetrating Attack [Marksmanship] (10,0,3) Bow Attack: If Penetrating Attack hits, you strike for +15 damage and this attack has 20% armor penetration.

3) Dual Shot [none] (10,0,5) Bow Attack: Shoot two arrows simultaneously at target foe. These arrows deal 25% less damage than normal.

4) Precision Shot [Marksmanship] (10,0,6) Bow Attack: If Precision Shot hits, you strike for +18 damage. Precision Shot cannot be blocked or evaded. This action is easily interrupted.

5) Marksman's Wager [Expertise] (5,2,24) Preparation: For 12 seconds, you gain 8 energy whenever your arrows hit, but lose 10 energy whenever your arrows fail to strike. This is an elite skill.

6) Serpent's Quickness [Wilderness Survival] (5,0,45) Stance: For 25 seconds, recharge times for your attack skills are reduced by 33%. Serpent's Quickness ends if your health drops below 50%.

7) Armor of Mist [Water Magic] (10,2,30) Enchantment: For 16 seconds, you gain +30 armor and move 33% faster.

8) Frozen Burst [Water Magic] (15,1,30) Hex: Foes adjacent to you are struck for 60 cold damage and are slowed for 9 seconds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
12/10/10/8 Not bad at all ^_^

This is my build. My g/f is running a similar build but with Windborne Speed as the movement buff and lightning touch for the combo.

Rapid Fire Energy Vaccuum powerhouse Ranger... At close range WHAMM! [9 seconds of slow combined with 60+ armor piercing lightning for a total of 120+ dmg in your face and we run

]

Since this build covers 4 stats, going traps really doesn't sound like a bad idea with such a high wilderness survival setup.

Amnisac · May 29, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Well if you still want Conjure, but not the bow string to go with it. Try getting the Ranger spirit's that make all damage elemental. Such as Greater Confligration, and Winter. (You won't be able to get GC until later. But it's a very good substitute.)

Xellos · May 29, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

So instead of going powerhouse you say we should go for disruption instead?

Generally yes. The damage is decent, but with protective spirit and crap being as it is, you ain't gonna kill things anytime soon.

Quote:

R/E is a LOT weaker in Disruption than R/Me.

How? 7/8 skill slots generally are ranger. It all comes down to preference. I personally like monk or necro, because restore life or rend is more valuable.

Quote:

Nvm, I guess that I can't find the help that I need here.

Yes, the help that You need. Perhaps not.

Quote:

Clobbering enemies from afar using high damage flatbows to the head coupled with Marksman's Wager + Serpent's Quickness should be SOMETHING the monk would have to worry a bit about.

Flatbows don't do more damage then any bow. The highest damage output bows are half-moon and shortbow because of their fast fire rate.

Quote:

And remember, it's two high dmg rangers burying a called target. Any power I'm dealing is backed by equal power from my g/f.

Same with monks, except they come in threes generally.

Quote:

At close range, our surprise attack is the Frozen Burst + Lightning Touch Combo. [though now that it's here, it's not much of a surprise now is it? lol] In theory it SHOULD hit for well over 120+ dmg to a person/mob nearby. With hp totals in game nearing a little over 500+ dmg on average, that's not small dmg. (and if it is, good luck catching us since frozen burst slows ya down for 9 seconds+ ^_^)

Calculate armour into the game first. The idea is nice, but your overestimating the damage.

Dreamsmith · May 29, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Sorry but the dps we get for 800 gold I'm pretty sure isn't worth it.

Are you kidding? It's quite definitely worth it. You're already using a lot of other skills in the build that give you a LOT less DPS than Conjure Element would (e.g. Precision Shot and Penetrating Attack).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Please don't post any more conjure+etc. combos cause our R/E just can't do it anymore due to Anet's decision.

You mean due to your own decision. It's still perfectly possible, it's only your own decision that prevents you from doing it, not Anet's.

Gh0sT · May 29, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

First of all i dont see exactly why you damn the bowstring so much....
I mean the ONLY real disadvantage there is to a elemental bowstring is that you cant have the Zealous bowstring...
I mean you talk like an elemental bowstring is the end of the world, like it will only do 1 damage or something...

Second if you started playing ranger because you thought it could bring down damage, you should have let you informed better...
I mean for PvE a ranger will do quite good damage... but for PvP a ranger doesnt match the damage given by the Warriors...

*** Possible Spoiler ***

Third (and maybe most important), why dont you just try out ur build, if you dont like R/E just switch secondary professionl, since you can do that later in the game... i mean i started as R/E and after i saw that the E part wasnt really helping anything (i mean if i want extra damage i'll take a prep.), and i swtiched to R/Me...

Howling Wind · May 29, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

People rate the zealous string so highly... don't the -1 regen annoy ppl? Constant energy degenaration, the only time i see it is really good is when you couple it with barrage but then again a vampiric string seems great in that situation too but yet they don't favour it much..

Anyway if you want to stay as R/E and like marksman wager why dont u try using Quickening Zephyr instead of serpents quickness or along with it. I mean you just summon it and it stays there for really long and doubles recharge rate.. downside is 30% extra energy but that really isn't a problem with high expertise and marksman wager going. So if you do that then I usually like to do marksman wager + penetrating atk and you can cast penetrating atk so much quicker..

Also I don't really think dual shot should be there, atleast not without kindle arrows or ignite arrows. I recommend you replace that with apply poison for some DoT damage, it will go well with hunters shot.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 29, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howling Wind

People rate the zealous string so highly... don't the -1 regen annoy ppl? Constant energy degenaration, the only time i see it is really good is when you couple it with barrage but then again a vampiric string seems great in that situation too but yet they don't favour it much..

Anyway if you want to stay as R/E and like marksman wager why dont u try using Quickening Zephyr instead of serpents quickness or along with it. I mean you just summon it and it stays there for really long and doubles recharge rate.. downside is 30% extra energy but that really isn't a problem with high expertise and marksman wager going. So if you do that then I usually like to do marksman wager + penetrating atk and you can cast penetrating atk so much quicker..

Also I don't really think dual shot should be there, atleast not without kindle arrows or ignite arrows. I recommend you replace that with apply poison for some DoT damage, it will go well with hunters shot.

I LIKE this info. And yes, I'm doing this due to ANET'S decision because if they DIDN'T nerf conjure, I'd be fine. I'm not going to complain but I do want people to stop thinking that I am. There's always an alternative and thanks to this post. I think I found it. Though I wonder if my teammates would mind that nature ritual? [shudder]

Little note: Dual Shot's double hit supposed to affect Marksman's in the fact that both arrows for 6 or so energy will net me 16 energy when they hit. I've set up the recycle times for these things to overlap ever so slightly because I'd rather have a skill always ready to fly then to wait an entire second for one to recharge.

I'm not sure if I'm overestimating the damage. Who gets point blank? Warriors. Who's weak to lightning damage? Warriors. From what I've seen, the 60 dmg from the Frozen Burst will be toned down, that's a given, but the 60 + 25% armor penetration from the Lightning Touch should double over. And again, it's not just damage, 9 seconds of slowing the warrior down should be enough to get the hell away.

Yes, I know that Ranger's don't have the highest dps in existence but that's the drawback of fighting ranged. Flatbows have an obscene range from all the bows I've tested and since their rate of fire is well known to be crap. I've decided to just feed the dps with nothing but special attacks. This ranger shouldn't do a single normal shot at all and just chain-fire all of his special skills back to back.

HOWEVER, since there's wilderness survival involved, I can easily flip this build around to be a more map oriented trap ranger. But I'm still interested in massive longest [not long, LOOONGEST] range damage. Thanks to the above poster for helping! ^_^

Tomo · May 29, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

BTW, if you decide to use greater conflaguration, note that its an elite.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 29, 2005, 10:57 PM // 22:57

as luck would have it, I find a 28 max dmg lightning bow of shelter for my g/f in the final stage... bah...

now if I was ONLY so lucky I might get an icy bow of fortitude [yeah, like that's gonna happen...]

Dreamsmith · May 29, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

But I'm still interested in massive longest [not long, LOOONGEST] range damage.

Well, if you truly are interested in massive damage, for a Ranger/Elementalist, the four best damage buffs are:

1) Tiger's Fury [Stance]. You do 50% more damage during it's duration (you get 2/3 time/attack, which means 3/2 attacks/time, which is a 50% damage increase), and that's not only 50% more damage from your bow, but 50% more from each other damage buff you're using.

2) Kindle Arrows [Preparation]. Alternately, Ignite Arrows which does less damage to individual targets but way more damage to groups. For sniping an individual target, however, Kindle Arrows is your best bet.

3) Conjure Element [Enchantment].

4) Favorable Winds [Nature Ritual]. Yes, it's only +6, but it lasts a good long time, and remember Tiger's Fury is boosting all your damage buffs another 50%.

All of these have the advantage of reasonably long durations, thus don't actually require much energy (so screw the Zealous bowstring, you don't need it), and they don't step on each other. The disadvantage is you're now looking at a five attribute build (when you throw in Expertise with the attributes for the four skills above, probably 10/8/8/8/7, 12/9/9/8/8 after mask and minor runes), but what extra damage you'd gain by maxing out any of the attributes behind any of these skills is less than what you'd lose by giving up one of the other skills.

How do these skills compare with other damage skills? Quite well, actually. Consider just the weakest one: Favorable Winds. That's only +6 per attack, but over 6 seconds, you're going to get 4-5 attacks in (remember Tiger's Fury), so that's +24-30 extra damage over six seconds, say +24 on average (not 27 because Tiger's Fury will only be up 90% of the time). By way of comparison, Power Shot only adds +18 damage every 6 seconds, at a considerably larger cost in terms of mana. So even the worst of these is a better choice than something like Power/Precision Shot for a "massive damage" ranger. Conjure Element is significantly better, and Kindle Arrows better still.

Of course, this isn't an either/or situation -- you can use all these buffs and a couple skills like Power Shot too. The buffs only take four of your eight skills slots, you can still do other stuff too. In fact, add:

5) Dual Shot. This one is a no brainer: that 75% rule only applies to the actual damage from the bow itself, all the buffs take full effect on both arrows, so you'd be insane not to include it in this kind of build.

So, I'd say those five skills really form the basis for a real "massive ranged damage" build. You can choose to pass up on one or two, but each one you pass up on is going to decrease the amount of damage you do, at which point you're not really looking for damage as much as other things (e.g. using Frozen Burst for the slow effect; the extra damage it gives you is small compared to most other skills that you could select and actually use more than twice a minute -- at that point, you're pretty much abandoning the concept of a massive damage ranger in favor of a "dirty tricks" ranger: less damage, more slowdowns/interrupts/conditions/etc).

Shaubarak · May 30, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Just tell me your in game names and ill buy the bowstrings for you.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 30, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Shaubarak, you don't need to buy her a bowstring anymore, now that she has a gold lightning bow [

]

But I don't need one either. though I wouldn't mind just gaming with ya in general. Name for my power ranger is Bokka Serenade...

And Tiger's Fury really sounds good... hmm, instead of wilderness surivival go beast mastery for that speed stance... I'd lose the power to fall to traps as an alternative and would a faster attack speed stance really be better than a "rapid fire nothing but fast recharging specials" stance?

Upon closer inspection, I'd only have 1s. of downtime for Tiger's Fury vs. quite a few seconds recycle time for Serpent's Quickness... Ah, decisions decisions. If I abandon wilderness to go for that high speed in yo face extra damage stance, then perhaps I'D do it. I like dmg and don't like the idea of fancy traps. More killing, less thinking...

THANKS A BUNCH